Re: FLASH: OT: Rates

[John Croteau]

Hi Wayne and all,


> >Price-fixing is no joke.  Individuals and companies can (and have) been

> >sued and/or jailed by the US government for discussing pricing with

> >competitors.  While you may think that prices should be discussed on this

> >forum, a legal-eye from the US Department of Justice may see it as intent

> >to fix the price of Flash services.

> Interesting viewpoint, that one.

> While price-fixing is no joke, discussion of rates between artists on a

> public forum is a long way from price fixing.  There is still such a thing

> as free-speech, and professional rates hardly come under the undiscussable

> category.

> Price fixing is when a few individuals or companies control the market, and

> adjust rates accordingly.  They don't always raise them, sometimes they

> give it away for a competitive advantage.  I'm sure you can think of some

> examples.

> At any rate, this group is made up of idividuals, and we hardly represent

> monopoly control of the web development business.  I wish we did.  ;

> All together now...  "We want $100 per hour!!", "We want $100 per hour!!",

> "We want $100 per hour!!"

You were doing fine until you said "We want $100 per hour!!" which is

close to the line.


Discussion of prices is OK except when you are trying to fix or

influence the price of doing contracted work. For instance you can

always discuss you prices with customers. On this list not everyone is

or will be real competitors. Some will even be customers of others.


What you can do is discuss what you charge.

What you can't do (at least for Americans) is discuss what others should

charge.

Since this List is an open forum (based in the UK) and does not intend

or actually represent a sizable number or percentage of Flash developers

casual discussion of prices is not illegal even in the US. This is not

the same for major organizations whose purpose is to promote a

particular trade which may have substantial influence on prices in that

trade.


Price fixing is based not only on the overt but the covert. For instance

if after having a discussion of price on this List the next day most

Flash developers were charging $100 an hour then this might be cosidered

prima facia evidence of price fixing. Do you really think this would or

could happen?


The other major restriction is that competitors should not ever discuss

specific prices when bidding separately on a job unless they plan to

work together as a team and bid together. This is especially true on

government bids. Note unless the team that you put together make up a

major portion of potential bidders you are not prevented from making

alliances in working together on projects though that information should

be disclosed. There are and should be special rules for companies that

have monopolies on particular fields (such as Microsoft).


The laws (if any) against price fixing in the countries other than the

US are usually less rigorous. Note the discussion of this topic has been

primarily by Americans though.


Price fixing (substitute wrong for illegal if not in the US).


Illegal - We must charge $100.

Legal   - I charge $100.

Illegal - Macromedia saying developers should charge at least $100 for

Flash work.

Legal   - Wayne saying I want $100.

Illegal - I am charging $88 on the upcoming Government Job (not closed).

Legal   - My bid was $88 on that job and I lost (or won) (after the bid

is closed and public).


-----------                               -----------------------

John Croteau

croteauerols [dot] com (mailto:croteauerols [dot] com)

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