RE: UKNM: FW: pretty poor if you ask me (KMM342302C0KM)

[Nicholas Tettenborn]

I was only guessing and none of what i say is based on any fact.. Really I

was just providing a shameless advertisement for our Great EJB/Java team :)


..but some of your comments are wrong...


> ASP is used by buy.com, nasdaq.com, microsoft.com, msn.com. So what

> lastminute.com gets more traffic than those guys.


In what form... does it really bear any resemblance to the asp that

Lastminute might be using?. Is it like hotmail which was bought years ago by

Microsoft but still seems to run on BSD after years of them trying to get it

working on any version of NT they could try.


> ASP is only the interface between the user and the server, and

> should not be

> used as the back-end.


Ideally but a quick cut around for them would be to use the session thingy

built into ASP. Remember that they were a pretty small set up until recently

and probably were under time constraints...


> as you mention this should be in either EJB/COM+ and

> managing these components on a distributed environment, linking

> further to a

> robust DB environment.


Why would they use mixed technologies and a technology with such a bad

history of security and scalability? Why would lastminute be forced into

using a inefficient Operating system such as NT when they could choose

linux/freebsd... Why would they not use jsp's? I am guessing of course and

they could be using anything at the backend so I could be completely

wrong.....


> They can throw more box's in, using any standard of the shelf

> load balancer,

> but there problem could be at the DB end and with the connection pooling

> objects.


Cool... do you know of a product that will do that off the shelf... if so I

would love to know it and do you guarantee it to work on all ASP sites

perfectly. It could be a problem with the DB... as you say..


> And your right maybe they should use coldfusion, this has been

> designed by a

> small company for people who can't really program.


ahhh the poor Microsoft infected brain.. set your self free and play with

some other technologies they are not that bad... I note you did not attack

the use of perl/mod_perl/apache because that has no one in that company and

seems to work well.. Autosport.com (built by backend!!) seems to be running

fine thank's with 17 million page impressions a month... there is very

little you can't do with coldfusion on the web..but it really is horses for

courses.. coldfusion suits some sites but not all... Coldfusion is used by

Toys R Us.. and for them to cope with a spike in traffic they load balanced

across their office machines... because it's easy to do with coldfusion.


> NB ASP 2 has been and gone, and your on about ASP+ a totally

> different ball

> game, this is going to blow all others out of the water, with

> native support

> for a lot of component driven tasks.


so why did they have to invent ASP+ then... I though ASP was really good..?

ohh yeah does ASP+ support todays ASP completely... ohhh no that's right it

does not... ohh so what do last minute do then if they want to use ASP+...

ohh rewrite it.. ohhh so they should have used .....?


And with ASP+ having native support for a lot of component driven tasks does

that not blow out your statement about:


> ASP is only the interface between the user and the server, and

> should not be

> used as the back-end.


Don't get me wrong.. ASP is a viable solution and we have done projects in

it... but I don't think it is the be all and end all of scripting languages

and could be the cause of the problem. I was just pointing out a possible

reason for them not being able to handle the levels of traffic they are

getting...


Nick


>

>

> -----Original Message-----

>

From: Nicholas Tettenborn [barontbackend [dot] co [dot] uk (mailto:barontbackend [dot] co [dot] uk)]

> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 2:07 PM

>

To: uk-netmarketingchinwag [dot] com

> Subject: RE: UKNM: FW: pretty poor if you ask me (KMM342302C0KM)

>

>

> The problem with lastminute could be their original choice in using ASP as

> the programming language....

>

> ASP is extremely difficult to properly scale/load balance if you try to

> maintain state (which lastminute I guess would have to) this seems partly

> why Microsoft is bringing in ASP 2 and .net...

>

> Here is a quote from Microsofts own technical article...

> "HTTP servers. A system of independent IIS servers, using any distribution

> or load-balancing strategy, services HTTP requests from the Internet. As

> demand for any resource increases, that resource or branch can be

> routed to

> an underutilized computer. In order to exploit this powerful distribution

> capability, your application needs to encapsulate HTTP requests

> so that they

> provide all the information necessary to fulfill the request. By

> eliminating

> reliance on server caching for a client between requests, the application

> request set becomes stateless. Although ASP provides the Session

> object for

> state caching on the server, dependence on this feature may limit an

> application's ability to scale because the Session object is not shared

> across IIS servers. "

>

> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/techart/msdn_aspscale.htm

>

>

> If they had done it in Java(EJB's), Coldfusion or

> Perl/Mod_Perl/Apache they

> would have been able to just throw more boxes at the spike in

> traffic...  If

> the problem was really to do with the number of users...

>

> Ohh yeah.. backend offer scalable robust and secure solutions from the

> above.... If last minute wish to have a rewrite then I am sure we can

> accomodate you. You will have to do it eventually! or are you

> already doing

> it?....

>

> Nick

>

> __________________________________

> Nicholas Tettenborn

>

> Technical Director

>

> Backend

> 44 - 46 Scrutton Street

> London

> EC2A 4QL

> tel 020 7247 6664

> fax 020 7247 9996

> www.backend.co.uk

>

> A deepgroup company

> www.deepgroup.com

>

> Visit www.pictor.com Bronze winner at the 40th International Clio Awards

>

> > -----Original Message-----

>

> From: ownerchinwag [dot] com [ownerchinwag [dot] com]On">mailto:ownerchinwag [dot] com]On Behalf Of Anne

> > Holland

> > Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 4:11 AM

>

> To: uk-netmarketingchinwag [dot] com

> > Subject: RE: UKNM: FW: pretty poor if you ask me (KMM342302C0KM)

> >

> >

> > Guys,

> >

> > I just bought the domain name FuckedMarketing.com and

> > we're gonna slam up a site where everybody can bitch

> > their brains out when idiotic stuff like this happens.

> >

> > "the web itself is not a fully developed machine yet" indeed!!!

> >

> > Gimme a couple of weeks and I'll let you know when it's

> > done.  Gotta love the Internet!

> >

> > Anne Holland, Publisher

>

> annehmarketingsherpa [dot] com

> > 202.232.6830

> > ____________________________________________

> > Get new marketing Case Studies every week!

> > http://www.MarketingSherpa.com

> > Practical news for Internet marketers & advertisers

>

> [Sam says: msg chopped]



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