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Subject: RE: UKNM: Internet and credit cards
From: Nabil Shabka
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:47:06 GMT

I think we need to be realistic about what's happening out there, the
Internet is not responsible for more credit card abuse, merely a great
conduit for it. Everyone commenting earlier has been partially right.
There have been no reported stolen card numbers on the net but, yes, the net
has a lot of fraud being run through it. ie you're safe giving your number
on the net but, if you lose it in a restaurant, it may be used tomorrow
around the world on the net. Instead of a fraud involving a few people, it
can be global.

Did anyone see the Money Programme last week regarding Internet fraud.
Yeah, they went with the 'I don't trust the net' stories. Who cares. I
feel terrible for those who unbeknownst to them are ripped off and have
their credit card details sent around the net and I feel pity for those who
fall into obvious scams. The same people who give money to strangers who
call them up with goldmines in Siberia and part with cash are the same
people who send cheques to people who send them emails about goldmines in
Siberia. Remember 'the more things change, the more they stay the same'.
They mentioned the case of a fake Bloomberg article to ramp a stock. Plain
old fashioned fraud, been done before many times. The difference here, the
speed and reach of the fraud, that's all.

The Internet simply magnifies everything due to the speed and reach of
communications. Same crimes, different delivery. Cards aren't stolen on
the net, merely used on the net - regardless of whether YOU actually use the
net or not.

It is not any riskier to use your credit card on the net than on the phone
or in a restaurant.

Nabil Shabka
Founder & CEO
50 Carnwath Road
London, SW6 3EG

Tel: 44-20-2384 6980
Fax: 44-20-2384 6981


-----Original Message-----
From: owneratchinwag [dot] com [owneratchinwag [dot] com]On">mailto:owneratchinwag [dot] com]On Behalf Of Lawrence
Sent: 22 November 1999 11:30
To: 'uk-netmarketingatchinwag [dot] com'
Subject: RE: UKNM: Internet and credit cards

On the issue of refunds banks are being incredibly helpful on these
matters...friend of mine recently lost over 400ukp on CDNow, with Midland
bank refunding everything immediately.
Midland hardly asked any questions, and said it wasn't worth their while to
quibble about giving the money back immediately as internet transactions
were so few compared to the total amount of cc transactions.
But as more people use the net the more complaints there are going to be.
Sunday paper story suggested that although credit card net transactions
account for only 2%, they make up nearly half of the amount of complaints.
that ain't so good. e-commerce sites need to be investigated harder by the
banks to generate a more rigorous standard.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Heathcote [SMTP:chrisathead-newmedia [dot] com]
> Sent: Monday, November 22, 1999 10:26 AM
> To: uk-netmarketingatchinwag [dot] com
> Subject: UKNM: Internet and credit cards
> At 2:51 pm +0000 on 19/11/99, Jo Chipchase wrote:
> >The joke was on me, as the ordering system hung immediately after I
> >entered my cc number. Two calls to the credit card company
> >confirmed, to my relief, that this time my card hadn't been debited.
> >However, I am reluctant to try either of these systems again !
> >
> >Has anyone had similar experiences? Perhaps I'm jinxed with these
> things!
> As Steve said, there are so many two-bit hacked-together e-commerce
> systems that problems are bound to occur.
> The problem starts with the "only click this button ONCE" messages,
> then there's the "do not close this window, do not click anywhere for
> up to 5 minutes", in which time you're meant to cross your fingers,
> and pray to your monkey gods that the next screen will actually
> appear.
> Add in clunky Java or JavaScript shopping carts, and there's no
> wonder that most shopping experiences end up with the user befuddled
> and confused.
> Even if your order is accepted, there's still the problem that a lot
> of sites store the orders and print them out for operators to enter
> by hand. Human error is bound to increase the number of wrong orders
> and returns that have to be dealt with.
> All that said, I try and buy everything on the Internet - travel
> tickets, CDs, books, whatever. I've probably spent 4-5 grand on the
> net over the last 2 years. The only credit card fraud was when a card
> had been used *before* I actually received it - some Internet
> shopping site had let scriptkiddies try out long lists of possible cc
> numbers without locking them out. Mine must have come up as accepted,
> and 180 pounds later, they dumped it. Natwest were incredibly helpful
> and refunded the money straight away.
> c.
> --
> It's against the rules to deliberately try to do it.
> Much like winning the hundred meter mosey.
> http://www.head-newmedia.com http://www.head-space.org

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  RE: UKNM: Internet and credit cards, Lawrence Chiles

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