Re: UKNM: The Big Retailers - was Toys R Us

[Felix Velarde]

'morning Steve


On 04.02.99 I read:


> Ouch Felix. And there was me being so pleased to see you name on the list

> again, as you usually have such interesting things to say.


ouch I think - am I not known for my controversial posts to groups?


> Firstly let me correct your outrageous spam accusation.


you can't. You spammed me, under false pretenses, in an unforgivably 

rude manner, naturally unsolicited, and using a deliberate 

misdirection (meaning your colleague forged a forwarded message). 

Don't, please, do it again - it ill becomes an organisation that 

would wish to be taken at all seriously as an authority on e-matters 

as opposed to a get-rich-quick scheme.


> Secondly let me address your complete lack of humour and your remarkable

> superiority complex.


hark who talks!


> My response to Sajid was intended as a joke.


Use a smiley.


> In context you will have seen

> that he had been a little tedious in his comment on a previous post of mine

> and in response I had a little dig at him ( Sajid, I hope you got the joke

> ).


which joke - the one where you call Sajid tedious or the invisible 

one in your post?


> So to then listed to your self important tirade about the qualifications

> for comment defies belief. Particularly when the comment you so took

> exception to was neither genuine nor serious.


Use a smiley. They were invented for the avoidance of doubt in written posts.


> So for the record, Felix, I

> do not believe business-to-business e-commerce is duller than dishwater -

> and I am quite happy with the dishwater analogy, given that it is a long

> time since anyone looked in a real ditch to check the water. And quite what

> generating revenue has to do with something being inherently not dull, I do

> not know


Ah, now we know. Please can you use a smiley?


> Thirdly, and most importantly on to your damaging comments about the IMRG.

>

> Felix wrote:

>>If the IMRG were to want to become anything but a laughing stock to

>>those of us at the coal face, it would be encouraging ANY kind of

>>real-world application as opposed to denigrating the work we're doing

>>that you then capitalise on.

>

> Can I begin by thanking you for your concern about industry attitudes to

> our organisation. However, I am completely baffled by your comments about

> denigration and capitalisation. I am happy that I have answered your

> denigration charge, above, on the understanding that it was a humorous

> reference.


Smiley now inferred.


> Quite what you can be referring to with regards to us

> capitalising on the work you do eludes me. I don't really want to invite

> further conversation on this issue, but perhaps you could be clearer off

> list.


Point taken - maybe we just think that we do all the valuable 

groundwork that bodies such as IMRG then belittle... ;) [ironic joke]


> The IMRG whilst taking a position on retail best practice online - and

> being a consumer qualifies me for that judgement


Bollocks. Since when did being a consumer qualify anyone for 

anything? Does it imply that I, as a consumer of Weetabix (although 

maybe not enough), am qualified to design the packaging, employ the 

farmers etc? Surely all it qualifies me to be is an eater of 

Weetabix. Sorry old fruit, my judgement is just as valid on that one 

as yours, Sajid's, Mike Slocombe's or the 

always-right-except-where-it-come-to-the-net Bill Gates'.


>  - we are careful not to go

> around slagging off naive or underfunded offerings, and instead try to work

> with those who are close to being excellent to get the extra mile sorted so

> that they can be used as examples and motivators (we are currently

> discussing such matters with Swatch in Switzerland).


(Curious: why? Would it not be more useful to discuss it with 

Swatch's web agency? Swatch sell watches - it's all they're 

'qualified' to do!)


> We stop short of

> encouraging ANY kind of real-world application because we believe a great

> deal of what is put before the online consumer currently is inadequate. If

> on the other hand you are happy with the general state of e-commerce

> offerings for the consumer and believe that developers such as Head New

> Media with their research-design-strategic-planning-past-or-current success

> are the only organisations fit to judge this then we clearly have little in

> common and a membership of the IMRG will be a waste of your money.


...a decision I came to long ago: IMRG is backwards-looking, in my 

opinion, in that it looks at what has gone before and then judges it 

with hindsight. It appears as if its policy is to hold the hand of 

the retailer while someone else goes off and does the 

ground-breaking. The policy of the new media agency is to hold the 

hand of the retailer while together they establish a foothold in new 

territory. You might be able to tell I have a thing about 

associations, groups, quangos and other back-slapping organisations: 

long experience of pouring money in and seeing nothing but hot air 

come out, without exception to the detriment of the client's 

confidence, and as a consequence, to the industry that I belong to 

(which is different to yours).


>

> Incidentally Felix, I was at the new media coal face from August 1994 to

> January 1998 and spent the previous seven years building a bricks and

> mortar retail business.


good-oh. Nice to see someone else who got bored with traditional 

margins (in publishing you make 6 percent). Personally speaking being 

part of a successful new media agency is worth sticking with - that 

way your money is where your mouth is ;) [sarcastic joke]


> Phew.


likewise. It ain't personal Steve, you just need, as you say, to use 

the occasional emoticon. :*


> Steve Johnston

> Director of Development

> The IMRG

> www.imrg.org

> 07000 46 46 74

>

>

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>

To: uk-netmarketingchinwag [dot] com

> cc:

> Subject:        Re: UKNM: The Big Retailers - was Toys R Us

>

> Steve Johnston, Director of Development at IMRG wrote:

>>>Seriously, the one topic that has yet to appear in this thread is the

>>>aspect of e-commerce that isn't retail, but business-to-business

>>>procurement.

>>

>> Yeah, that's right Sajid, because its duller than dishwater.

>

> IMRG is the same organisation that spammed me yesterday in the rudest

> manner using a forged forwarded message. Past or current success (of

> any kind: research, design, strategic planning or whatever) or at

> least an understanding of netiquette are IMO the prerequisites to be

> able to comment on such an issue - the comment you posted above was

> so crass as to be unbelievable.

>

> We, that is those of us who are actually succeeding in the new media

> strategy, design and production business, are setting the precedents

> consumer e-commerce companies (e-tailers) are only now (pace amazon)

> beginning to follow. We are actually generating results: 59 enquiries

> converting to 31 qualified leads with average GBP5million business

> per lead (for C&L pre-merger, have a look at

> http://www.head-case.com/coopers), for example.

>

> In our 'duller than dishwater' (surely you mean ditchwater) business

> - at least some of us are actually generating revenue.

>

> If the IMRG were to want to become anything but a laughing stock to

> those of us at the coal face, it would be encouraging ANY kind of

> real-world application as opposed to denigrating the work we're doing

> that you then capitalise on.

>

> Felix Velarde

> director      Head New Media

> success is about interaction

> voice  + 44 (0) 171 737 7579

> http://www.head-newmedia.com


Felix Velarde

director      Head New Media

success is about interaction

voice  + 44 (0) 171 737 7579

http://www.head-newmedia.com 

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